105 May 21

Driver waitingThe U.S. Department of Transportation’s proposed four-year, $302 billion transportation bill includes a new rule that drivers be paid for the time they’re detained at shipper’s and receiver’s facilities.

The Grow America Act, released by the White House on April 29, states that the Secretary of Transportation may require motor carrier employers to:

Track the on-duty (not driving) time of an employee whose base compensation is calculated in a manner other than an hourly wage, and separately compensate the employee for any on-duty, not-driving period at an hourly rate not less than the federal minimum wage.

In a separate analysis of the bill, the DOT explains that drivers are frequently detained for extended periods at shipper or receiver facilities and are on duty but not compensated. According to the analysis:

This situation often results in pressure for drivers to drive beyond the federal hours of services limit as a matter of economic necessity, risking driver fatigue and jeopardizing highway safety. FMCSA believes that safety could be significantly increased if drivers were compensated for these waiting periods.  

What do you think? Should drivers be compensated for time they’re detained? And, just as importantly, who should foot the bill? The current proposal states that drivers should be paid by the motor carrier employer, but says nothing about charging the shipper or receiver who may have caused the delay.

Comments (105) -

Drivers need to be paid a fair wage for the work they do. If circumstances detain them, they should be paid.

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Drivers should absolutely be paid for detention time.  It should be charged back to the shipper/receiver that caused the delay.
Glad to see this is being addressed. The point made about jeopardizing safety for economic necessity is absolutely true though they need to adjust the CSA driving/on duty rules to compensate for it.

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Did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps the carrier is getting compensated for the time his driver is detained but not passing that to the driver?  Carriers put in place conditions that make it difficult for the driver to qualify for detention pay and there is no way for a driver to know any better.

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Must be a broker !!

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Truckn4Cash
Truckn4Cash

I agree or the carrier gets $50 an hour and pays their drivers $12 an hour when it's not just the company losing money but the driver does also

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Richard Gonzalez
Richard Gonzalez

Of course we need to get paid for detention! I sit at shipper/receiver docks sometimes over 40 hours a week, hauling precious refrigerated cargo. It's way past ridiculous! If we were'nt such a bunch of panzies and hung our keys up for a max of five days. I bet the situation would change real fast.

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An employee should be paid while at work, waiting or driving or any activity which keeps the person occupied on company business.
Shippers will get more organized when they are required to pay for drivers wasted time.  If I have to wait 1-6 hours to get loaded, it doesn't change the delivery appointment time, there is just less time to get there meaning less sleep.  Sleeping two or three hours in a truck while at a shipper does not count as sleep.
The trucker life is hard enough without all this extra wasted time not getting paid.
    

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MARKROBERT MURPHY SR
MARKROBERT MURPHY SR

-  KEY WORD-.NOBODDYS  COMMENTED  ON-[ MINIMUM WAGE ]-.GETTING PAID
AH PREVAILING UNION SCALE WAGE HOURLY..AFTR THE FIRST 15 MIN TRUCK/HITS DOCK'PLATE[ OR ENTERS APPT TIME PROPERTY-ON TIME]...
AS/PER ..MINIMUM  WAGE [ HOURLY ] PER STATE DRIVER IS LIC FROM  -AT A PREVAILING WAGE...[ UNION SCALE - RAYTES] KNOT MINIMUM WAGE- .LIKE FAST FOOD CHAINS[EMPLOYEE'S]  RESPCTBLY....SKILLED/ARTICULATE OPERATORS/ENGINERS- WEATHE RINDEPENDENT -OR - CARRIER DRIVER/OPERATORS...ARE AH HIGHLY SKILLED EQWIPMENT OPERATORS.80.000LB 70% OF AMERICAS SERVICE SECOND ONLY TO THE ARMED FORCES....RESPCTABLY...........PLEASE PASS THYS MSG/MRMM

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Drivers shold be paid for detention. The party causing the detention, normally the receivers of the load should be billed and made pay these charges. It is a real headache to collet detention in the market today. No one wants to take the responsibility for the delay in unloading or loading. MAny industries regularly call it a "cost of doing business with us" and disregard any attempts to collect from them. Large companies and large brokers are the worst about paying these charges. There is always an excuse that they find to try to wiggle out of paying the billing for it, or just plain ignore it.

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Certainly driver-trucks should be compensated for dention time.. with new HOS rules waiting for 4-6 hours to load or unload is defintely creating pressure for drivers to still drive beyond max hours.. The dettion should be paid by the shipper/receiver .. which ever is holding the driver over..

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If the Broker owns the load ( if they received from a shipper or receiver) they should pay for the Detention time first and then get their money back from them. Pay the Driver or Carrier first. We has a trucking company pay our drivers 25% or 27% of the Detention Time, depending on the driver's pay. ( AND WE DO PAY THEM) We show them the RATE CONFIRMATIONS!!!

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Yes, often drivers become frustrated because they know they are not making any money sitting at the shipper/receiver...many times for extended period of time. Although not driving, they become tired and then this becomes a safety issue. The shipper/receiver's should pay for this detention time out side of the rate for transportation, as a separate charge.

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   Drivers and Employers need to be compensated for waiting at the shipper and/or receiver.  This equipment is portable storage for the customer and the customer is the one that make the appointments for delivery and pick up. It puts the responsibility back on the customer to manage their operation properly.

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Yes, it falls back on the consumer. Who is that consumer? Understandably more than just the loader/unloader but they are part of that also. So in retrospect, the individual(s) taking their sweet @$$  time loading or unloading the product from your trailer need not complain because of the increase in cost...... they caused it ( but their union rates will adjust to compensate)... so the problem is a circle.... the answer is for them to get off their butts and do their job... the driver busted his/hers to get it there on time. Load/ unload it in a timely fashion.

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so it is driver's fault that he/she is sticked due to inefficiency of some lazy butts and shouldn't be compensated.

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Yes they should be paid. Who should pay them. The shipper or receiver that detained them is the only way to stop unnecessary delays.  It is a cost factor to the carriers(drivers) to be delayed often without reason. Where the freight rate is agreed to the detention time is not therefore it would be billed along with the freight charge.

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Yes drivers need to be paid detention

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   Drivers and Employers need to be compensated for waiting at the shipper and/or receiver.  This equipment is portable storage for the customer and the customer is the one that make the appointments for delivery and pick up. It puts the responsibility back on the customer to manage their operation properly.

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They should go after the brokers and have them disclose how much are getting paid and limit how much they are getting paid because they abuse the carriers and underpay them.

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You are way out of line. I don't know what Brokerage Co you use  but it's certainly the wrong one. I agree back before the driver shortage the shippers ruled and if the brokers and carriers didn't like it too bad there was always someone that would take their load and it  was out of the Brokers hands as well as the Carriers. Well now the tables have turned and if done properly and the Carriers and Brokers work together we can change the Industry where all parties can make a decent living without everyone trying to screw each other. If we try to get revenge for the past  (which perhaps we deserve) knowing that the shippers are desperate for trucks and raising our rates to extreme will only cause the shippers to raise their rates to extreme to their customers in turn will drop it on the consumer causing extreme inflation and we'll be right back in the recession in which we have finally just got out of. The smart and only way to handle this is to come up with a new Industry standard on Rates, Detention Time, Layover Pay, etc. etc. etc. By taking advantage of the truck shortage is doing more damage then good. The rates are such a mess it's causing chaos everywhere. There are difference's between carriers of hundreds of dollars for the same load, and until we find even ground it's going to hurt everyone in the long run.
WE NEED TO ALL WORK TOGETHER TO CREATE FAIR DRIVER WAGES, FAIR DETENTION CHARGES,  FAIR LAYOVER RATE, AND FAIR UNLOADING CHARGES. That means the Carriers, Shippers, Receivers, D.O.T Transportation Association and everyone involved must wake up, sit down and work this out before the shelves in the stores are empty and inflation skyrockets  making the Great Recession look like a night at the Casino. Just in case someone doesn't know our industry runs this country and we are capable of saving it or  destroying!!!  Remember without us nobody eats, drinks, or buys clothes. Lets show the country that we are here to save it!!!

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Richard Gonzalez
Richard Gonzalez

Bob I think your the one thats out of line Mister! You sit in a truck and try to make a living, were sitting at docks for 40 plus hours a week trying to get loaded/unloaded which is assanine. Just wait till the FMCSA mandates electronic logs at the end of 2015 every company with 5 or less trucks will be forced out of business. Look at Fikes the CEO admitted that electronic logs was the last nail in that companies coffin. Crooks will be Crooks shippers and brokers will never change.

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Drivers should be compensated for being detained at a shipper or recevier. But the motorcarrier doesn't need to be held accountable for compensation unless the shipper and receiver are held liable and compensate the motor carrier for detention time.

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DRIVERS AND TRUCK SHOULD BE PAID FOR ALL THE TIME THEY ARE DETAINED BY SHIPPER OR RECEIVERS JUST LIKE SOME COMPANY CHARGE $100 OR MORE AN HR FOR TRUCK BEING LATE BUT THEN MAKE TRUCK AND DRIVER WAIT THER FOR HRS TO LOAD OR UNLOAD

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Who ever caused the delay should pay the detention time. A flat $75 per hr.  should be charged by the transportation company.  They can then pay their drivers.  Just as shippers and receiver charge motor carriers if they are late so must carriers be compensated for delays by shippers or receivers.

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GH Lang - Wolfsden Enterprises LLC
GH Lang - Wolfsden Enterprises LLC

As an Independent O/O, I give shippers 2 hours and receivers 2 hours, after that, its $50 an hour detention time I charge them, paid in either cash or guarenteed by the broker. And I get it, 100% of the time.  My time is as valuable as anyone elses, and when I am paid to haul a product from Point A to Point B, it does not include sitting around waiting on A or B to find the folks to load my rig, unload my rig, figure out where they want me, etc.  IF for some reason I am not at B by the time I have been told to be there (late), then its on me for how long I wait, not THEIR problem.  But, When I am early, I dont count the time I wait IF I have a scheduled delivery time, thats MY problem for being early.  If I have run several loads for someone and they have treated me well in the past, then sure, I wont charge them.  Business is business... and while I have to typically wait 15 to 45 days to get paid for something they want "NOW or YESTERDAY", I do my best to get it on target on time every time for everyone.  Want to change the rules some? Add NET 3 DAYS to all freight bills!!! I would prefer COD, since that is what they charge us when we buy products from them right?  I have 7 to 10 days to pay any fuel bills, but have to wait 15 to 45 days for money???? I say make them pay the freight bill as soon as the contract is complete, and anything over 2 hour delay time to load is AT LEAST $50 an hour!!!!

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GH, understand the if you are early not charging, but should it not be time started as soon as delivery time is met an then awaiting dock or locked to that dock? That is how I would, and have seen large companies, do that very thing. One of the few benefits of electronic logging I see is right there, for that purpose, to show the shipper/ reciever true time awaiting.

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Hello, I am an O/O and I cant get them to pay me, brokers, receivers or shippers . How do you do it ?

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John Sivicky
John Sivicky

Yes, all drivers should be paid for detention time at a shipper or receiver but not at the companies expense. All detention time should fall on the shippers and receivers. Once they start being responsible for that detention time and the costs fall on them then maybe the trucks won't be sitting for so long. If they aren't held responsible, the practice of taking there sweet time will not change and the costs will fall on the trucking company that has absolutely no control over the matter. We don't want to sit, no money in sitting, we're at their mercy !!!!

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Yes drivers should get detention pay, the employer should have terms negotiated with whoever is paying for the load to be moved and they should have terms with their supplier or customer, that way the party responsible for the delay pays in the end

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They should be compensated by those who delay them. Shipper or receiver

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  I Do believe that a Driver or Carrier should be paid for Detention Time. If the Shipper or Receiver calls for a truck though the carrier or Broker that's saying that the load is ready. If not they should not call the carrier or broker until then. If the Broker calls for the truck, then the Broker should step up to the plate and pay the detention time themselves( Driver or Carrier should not have to wait for the shipper or receiver to pay). The Detention time should be based on 1 hour @ 100.00 per hour. This should be an  incentive for them to load or unload the truck.

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By allowing drivers to be paid detention pay at a shipper or reciever, which is after the normal 2 hours window allowed, it would assist the driver in his/her daily time allowed to keep him/her more alert on the road and not as stressed to get the load to the other end or pick up the next.
As for the should be at least minimum wage I disagree. Drivers should be paid the same as if they were driving , calculate their mileage wage on a nomal daily rate and you will see that a minimum of at least $15.00/hr is more like it.
we all know that problems can occur when getting the trailer loaded or unloaded, but that should not excuse the shipper or reciever for locking a driver to a dock and tell them we will get to you when we feel like it. We transport the goods they want or want to get rid of, so the driver should not be " punished" for being on time and then stuck while they use the trailer as a storage area and then require the driver to "blast ass" to get the load where it goes on time or be docked their pay. Return the favor --$! Dock the shipper or reciever for shuffling their feet when the driver did not.

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nuno cabral
nuno cabral

Very simple....If they only make money driving, why wouldn't they get paid, facing detention behind their control, providing that they made it on time for their appointment?
They are very unfairly treated out there.
Something must be done.
everyone else makes money , as long as they punched in their card.
It's bad enough that they face the adversity of weather, equipment and traffic conditions to make their money

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Many shippers/receivers do not pay detention time or make it very difficult to bill them for it.

Driver detention costs the trucking company dearly in lost productivity and lost backhaul opportunities.  Shippers, receivers and brokers don't care about that since they have no investment in equipment and driver wages.

If it were made mandatory that shippers and receivers pay for detention time it would force them to care more about it and one result would be increased productivity in the trucking industry.

If trucking companies are forced to foot the bill for inefficiency at the shipper/receiver they will have to increase freight rates to compensate.

My two cents...

Mike

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  I like your 2 cents, very well put! We as a trucking company are stepping up to this Detention issue..if I book my trucks with a Broker: I'LL Will ask them about this issue. If they tell me that they have 3 or 4 hours before detention start I turn down the load.

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As it should be turned down. The national average is two hours ( which to me is still too long) and that is accepted also before taking the brokers load. Brokers though are an other issue that can be discussed til blue in face.

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Can I hear an AMEN brothers and sisters.

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who ever is at fault should pay if you wait in trucking yard trucking company should pay if you waitting to be unloaded the receiver should pay but not minimum wage because the driver may prefer driving time, if its not worth the time to wait and get  payed, the drivemay prefer to drive for more money.

thank you

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Yes, Drivers should paid detention.
The detention should be paid by either the Shipper or Consignees that detain drivers.
The goverment has always regulated hours of service, and since they have decided to mandate the use of (EOBRS) they need to start regulating wait time for detention.
The goverment should  legislate that Shippers and Consignee are reponsible for charges.
Driver must be compensated for excessive wait time.

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Yes !!
I hope one day government will get to this simple idea

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Richard Gonzalez
Richard Gonzalez

Robert you must be blind or just plain ignorant! Don't you know that everything the government touches goes to s@#t! They could'nt balance a checkbook. They are the most unqualified group of humans ever! They should definitely not be behind the wheel of the fiercest country on this planet.

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The trucking company should pay them for there time it is not the drivers fault the trucking company is scared to tell the shipper they have to pay .Truck drivers should be covered by the same labor laws every one else is .Trucking company's have been abusing drivers for to long .
I have my own authority and I get paid for all my time or I don't do the load.

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Drivers that arrive on time with a scheduled appointment should be paid a reasonable hourly rate if he/she is detained beyond the one hour scheduled unload time.  This cost should be paid by the party that cause the problem, poor dispatch- carrier, poor scheduling consignee- lack of correct information from the shipper-Shipper.  A driver should not be penalized because we as managers fail to do our job.

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The work done by commercial drivers of transportation industry is discriminated by a variety of working classes, including the Enforcement People that represent the transit law in the USA. This itself is already a huge reason for a compensation. No doubt about the hours waiting on an exclusive request for the  shipper or receiver or law enforcement should be paid. The payment should be assigned the responsibility of the entity requesting the hours of service from a CDL driver. The amount paid for detention can not be lower or less than what it's being made by CDL drivers over the road. Detention today is a huge free convenience  for who needs it and ignored by the entities that hire the services of these professionals. The amount should be passed on to the CDL Professionals 100% without any brokerage fees or any other deduction. 

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Carriers should, and need to be paid for delays over the industry standard of 2 hours free, on the dry van and reefer side of transportation when it is caused by EXTERNAL influences not of the carriers design. Whomever is the offending party should fairly compensate the Carrier, especially if an over zealous Broker ordering a truck before the shipper said it would be ready in an attempt to get their percentage %$$. I also feel that carriers that blatantly have no integrity or honor should be charged when they are not on  time  for their picks and delivery if it is not due to acts of GOD. Do not overbook a truck driver that can NOT complete the pick and delivery within their HOS.
Flatbeds, Hoppers, livestock and other OTR transport vehicles do not have the same opportunity to hold any party ACCOUNTABLE for the delay in their time, yet they are held to the exact same HOS rules minus the compensation. Treat others as you wish to be treated, keep the industry fair to all parties=my opinion.

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Yes we the workers should be paid a fair wage. Who pay the bill, the payee. If it owner operator, the cost of equipment and the labor.

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To be fair, such law, while balancing some things out, would result in lower average per mile rates in the same way as waiters get paid less per hour rates because the get tips. Simple macroeconomics. I still support that but the question is who will be required to pay? Brokers should also be required to pay carriers extra if it is not carrier's fault.

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I've spent as much time as two days from my app. time at a receiver. Makes you want to explode. The new HOS stinks as well. I get up for the day and drive 3hrs sit at shipper for 8hrs I can only drive now for 1hr. Who the heck came up with that crap.

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Many trucking co do not pay detention time or make it very difficult for their driver to bill them for it. Yet you can bet the trucking co bills the shippers/receivers for it. Ether way the driver is gonna get it in the eye. and that's a sure bet

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Absolutely, drivers should be paid for detention time.  And absolutley, the government should NOT mandate that payment.  If you are a good driver, rewrite your contract with your employer / broker / shipper to pay an agreed-upon rate after an agreed-upon number of detention hours.  Whomever pays the driver is the only person that driver can make a payment claim against.  If they fail to meet their commitments, quit doing business with them and look for a better business partner.  As far as I know, no one in this country is required to stay in a business relationship with anyone else!  How about getting off your lazy, fat behind and put a smidgen of effort in making your life better, rather than asking someone else to do it!  "You are the sum of your choices.  Use wisely your power of choice!"

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Hill billy bone
Hill billy bone

Yes, as a matter of fact I do think truckers should be treated and paid for their time or lets just pass a law that everybody works 14 hours a day and gets paid for 11.  What the hell, HUH? Truckers do it everyday.  PAY US when we are WORKING OR WAITING FOR YOU.  Figure it out.  Those little sign in sheets that the shipper shoves in your face as soon as you get in their shipping office needs to be used for more than just your company name and pick up number!  

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On the surface it sounds logical AND FAIR.  However, eventually we will price ourselves onto trains.  Chances are they are pushing this.

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I don't know where to start with this. First off I always demand an appt. time for pick up and delivery. I have the broker or the customer acknowledge that after 2 free hours there is a detention charge and reach a mutual rate for compensation. Also I agree that the new hours of service limit everyone in this industry to driving of 11 potential hours, so there for detention should most definetly be implemented in order to compensate the driver for lost wages due to down time. As far as who should pay for this, if you are on time for your appt. it should be the shipper , consignee, or the broker if it is found to be the brokers fault. The other thing is if there is detention time incurred the broker should not be entitled to any of the monies since they are not the one being delayed. There is no free time @ a lawyers office, Dr's office etc. Should be one hour since in most cases it don't take much more than 30 minutes to load or unload a trailer especially pallet loads. Also if you think about the new hours of service and the restrictions that it creates will slow the industry down as far as product getting to where it needs to be in a timely manner which in turn will drive prices up in our already crippled economy. Totally insane what these buracrats are doing to this industry. Lets introduce some restictions on politicians and law makers and put them in a strangle hold like we have been forever. Lets see if they feel like going to work every day wondering if they are going to be harassed by there piers. Not a good way to start the day 7 days a week wondering. Icould go on forever not to mention what we put up with on the road as far as ignorence. We should be getting metals not sitations. They should pull us over to thank us for the contribution that we make for our country instead of looking down there nose @ us. I think I said enough for now, but I do have much more that I could go on about. Be persistent with your rates, be proffessional, and neat. This all goes a long way except with people that are totally ignorant. Good luck and health to all.

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Bob Simpson
Bob Simpson

Why even ask a question like that, who works for free, the shipper / receiver is responsible for paying detention also address lumpers why should we have to pay to get their product off our trucks, everyone tries to exploit truckers, why don't we also address the rate that trucks are paid, that has been the same I will go back only 30 years . Everthing has doubled, tripled, quadrupled and the rates remain the same.

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This shouldn't even be a debate,  without question all driver's should and must be paid for any time at a shipper or the consignee,  I charge $ 60 an hour after the first 2 hours I do feel in order to get both sides to have some consideration for the driver's they must be mad to pay , and it should be a rate set in law so that everyone knows what he or she is to be payed as this will also keep the trucking companies in check,  because as we know they would have no problem cutting a big part of that for themselves.
Only a none driver would think detention should not be paid.

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The bill should include a flat rate of $100 for the first hour after the 2 hour grace then $75 per hour until load is completed paid by Shipper/receiver.  I see a lack of manpower at the docks for the amount of trucks scheduled for the same time slots this is the fault of the shipper/receivers and they should be held accountable.

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I agree with you completely And the rates should be charged in 10 min intervals!

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I look at it this way , I send one of my trucks to a shipper or consignee. It should NOT take two hrs to load or unload any palletized freight . We pay our drivers 17 dollars an hr for detention time , they would rather be driving. Lets go shippers and receivers get on the ball the FEDS should be looking at you not always us .

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GARY PATTERSON
GARY PATTERSON

YES, OF COURSE A DRIVER SHOULD BE PAID FOR THE WAITING TIME. ESPECIALLY FOR DRIVER'S DELIVERING PRODUCE. THESE WAREHOUSE'S ARE THE WORST TO ABUSE THE TIME USED TO UN-LOAD A TRUCK. YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE A UNIVERSITY DEGREE OR BE A ROCKET SCIENTIST TO FIGURE THIS ONE-OUT.

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Let me start by saying that I'm truck broker and I work with hundreds of owner operators every day and have been side of the industry for about 12 plus years now. Before that I was a owner operator and a company driver before that for almost 20 years. I certainly agree with the detention for waiting. But there is a way bigger problem than being paid for waiting to load and unload. In fact if this goes threw the waiting money only be pushed and covered this way anyhow. Its called unloading charges. The unloading charges are and have been way out of control for a number of years. I remember when this first started. Your grocery chains charged like $30.00 for a floor load and maybe $15.00 for a palletized load. They called this a straight pull off. Back in this day places like Acme in Philadelphia and Safeway in Upper Marlboro Md had homeless and drunks hanging around a barrel of burning trash just outside there facility. These were lumpers. The only way these guys could come on the premises was if the driver brought them in with them to unload for them. These guys weren't aloud to leave the back of that trailer while in the facility. The receivers ran the fork lifts and racking machines there selves. The driver would negotiate the price before bringing these guys in the facility. If they didn't like the price the lumpers didn't get the job at all. The driver would do it there selves if they chose. Now days the driver checks in and is handed a non negotiable invoice for the unloading the minute they walk in the door. If they don't pay this they may not be unloaded and even possibly have the load rejected back to them. Now think about this. The drivers are being made to pay a receiver to take something they bought. Not being ask. No negotiations what so ever. Just point a gun at there heads so to speak and say pay me. This has turned into such a big industry of its own. The grocery chains in most cases have hired people to do the unloading for them because they are making millions on taking something that bought and paid to have brought to there docks. So now lets look at this. Waiting time?? Sure. I agree for sure. But this charge will just be pasted off as more unloading money that we can count on. That's right the shippers and receiver's will cover this money in unloading  . So if we have a legislation lets get the biggest rip sice the truck had to pay for the wood the product rode on. We the brokers finally combated this rip off and got rid it. It was a long battle and for a while or until we all stuck together on it lost customers over pallet charges. But now we all need to be fighting these unloading charges. This is larger than all of us. It has to be a billion dollar industry by now but no one knows because its kept hush hush. The government has no idea this is being done. Mr Owner Operator I will ask you this question. Were is OOIDA on this issue. The wait issue isn't were we need our efforts UNLOADING CHARGES. Pass this along and maybe we will get some attention. Maybe enough attention for someone in the congress or some wereWE HAVE TO STICK TOGETHER JUST LIKE WE DID ON THE PALLET CHARGES. UNLOADING CHARGES GUYS. WAKE UP SMELL THE COFFEE.

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Steve Barnes
Steve Barnes

A driver should absolutely be paid for their detention time!  At BAT Logistics we pay the carrier and then go after the shipper or receiver that caused the delay.  We work out the pay on a case by case basis however our policy is that we don't make money off of accessorial charges what we get we give to the carrier. The fact of the matter is, and other brokers large or small need to understand this,  without carriers there is no brokerage.  We say take care of the carrier first then go to the responsible party.   The down side is sometimes we take the loss.  If everyone does everything they are suppose to meaning they are on time, and let us know when they aren't getting empty so we can see if we can get them empty in time, then its not even a question. Bob Simpson if you are still getting paid rates that worked 30 years ago, you need to come haul for us.  Fairness is the key to everyone making this work and making money enough money to feed our kids. Norman you bring up a valid and scary point.  Not all brokers are trying to get over, some of us understand we have to work a little harder to overcome the bad name some of these companies have given our profession. Just like there are good and bad, fair and unfair trucking companies. The shippers and receivers have to understand the value of keeping a truck's wheels moving.  

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Danny Crafton
Danny Crafton

Drivers should be paid for detention. I retired from Sunrise Express on 6-6-14. Sitting around docks seemed to have become an expected function of our Drivers. I decided at 65 I didn't have that much time to waste sitting around a dock. Unpaid detention was one of the determinations for my retirement.

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Once again the government jumping in and doing it backwards. Solutions to problems need to be figured out at the inception of the problem not the result i.e  emissions. The problem starts with the party creating the delay, they need to make the next party involved whole, the carrier. Then it is incumbent that that carrier make the next one in line , the driver whole. No where in this discussion should someone in the government decide how much anyone is to be paid that has to be market based. I can tell you we pay drivers 18.00 per hour after the first 2. You still want the government to set the rate?

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Patrick Connelly
Patrick Connelly

I actually responded to a FMCSA survey and my reply was these shippers and receivers have to streamline their part of this equation.  They are a major contributor to alot of the problems with HOS violations. People blame brokers, trucking company's , Drivers etc. But these warehouses are in my opinion the biggest offenders. Drivers feel pressured into pushing the rules because so many of these places feel it's ok to have you sitting in their parking lot for 2 hrs up to who knows how long. I've waited more than 10 hours many times and they still expect on time delivery. We all know this happens every single day to thousands of drivers so I applaud the government for FINALLY recognizing this but to set the low side of compensation at minimum wage is absolutely absurd. Do they really believe that the threat of charging an extra $50 for 8 hrs of our time is going to change anything? Set a realistic minimum rate of detention. One that stings a little bit and then we will see real change. These big trucking company's are getting $30-$50 per hour in some cases and your going to require them to give the driver what $7.50/hour?? Ridiculous.  

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If a driver makes .42 cpm  and can do 60 miles an hour then he should be
getting $ 25.20 an hour not minimum  wage  as an owner O/O I charge $ 65.00 an hour and I get it in the Conformation be for I move the load and you all need to do the same .
   Or don't move the load there are a lot of good brokers out there and I am glad to do work for them .

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Patrick Connelly
Patrick Connelly

And to a lot of the freight brokers. Not all but a lot. It would help us independent and owner op trucks if you would stop ducking and dodging us when the situation calls for detention pay. The same broker that calls me 15 times in 2 days checking on his load just disappears after the load is complete and we're trying to get a straight answer about the rate of detention and the new confirmation sheet so the load can be billed. We've heard it all. Waiting to hear from our customer, I'm emailing them now I'll get back to you, broker just happens to not be in the office every time we call. You know who you are. We know what your doing so please stop with the games and just do the right thing already. We are all aware that alot of you guys are taking way more than the "10%" broker fee I'm pretty sure the brokers are making as much or more off a lot of these loads as i am do you really have to try to keep the detention money as well? Most people are aware that this is why some brokers are so worried about in and out times..I'm sure some of it is contractual and some is the fact that you are nailing these company's with the detention and not passing it on to the truckers.

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OK here is the thing do some drivers deserve detention yes, but if you have to wait three hours after you beat the hell out of the broker on the rate, to bad you pay it. You have to understand that when a broker goes back to the customer and requests and outrageous rate for a load because that is what is needed to get the carrier to haul it they assume it is an all in rate. NOBODY IS GOING TO LOOSE CUSTOMERS BECAUSE YOU WANT AN EXTRA HUNDRED ON YOU $5000 LOAD. That is all thank you.

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They are looking at it but when will it be mandated.  Brokers, shippers and receivers don't really care since again the same old line of that's the cost of doing business but meanwhile there are carriers and O/O going out of business and a drivers shortage because the financial burden is solely on them.  When they changed HOS, they should have mandated this.  $50 hour after the first two hours.  That's industry standard.  Make it happen.  Inefficiencies at a dock is not the drivers' fault.  Take care of our drivers and they'll take care of you.  Until all carriers refuse to do business with these types of shippers that haul to these facilities, nothing will change.  Stand together.  

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Beat the broker out of money on a load ? Is that an oxymoron?  Spot rates at $2.00 and brokers saying can't pay more than $1.15.. but that is not the issue here. So the driver "beat the odds" on the load, that is kudos to him or her, but they show up at appointment time and get detained, that is the issue. If appointment is set, everything should be ready to load.. or compensated.
So what you are saying is the rate is the rate. If detained at shipper or consignee because load not ready, equipment breakdown, etc...driver eats the rest. So it should be then if driver has a breakdown, stuck in traffic for whatever reason that they should not be "hit" for any penalty fee. Rate's a rate right ???? Inconclusive

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eugene bell
eugene bell

Truck drivers should be paid for all the time they work, if they are paid by the mile, (which most of the time if a rip-off too, since many companies pay map miles instead of actual miles) they should be paid by the hour for their on duty (not driving) hours on their logs.  But they should not get any stupid minimum wage for it, I guess that is up to what the drivers can negotiate with the employers.   Personally, I think everybody should be paid by the hour, including preachers, with overtime pay and all.

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Mark Montague
Mark Montague

I'm feeling almost disbelief this is still an issue in 2014-15 with the driver shortage and all.  Once my management asked me to go out to the dock where we had issues loading trucks.  It was taking 3 1/2 hours per trailer to load.  I just set up a logical flow, made sure the dockworkers properly stacked and wrapped the product, etc.  Loading times dropped to 35 minutes.  There is really no excuse for long loading and unloading times.  Free time should be limited to one hour and the driver should be compensated for his/her time starting with arrival.  Pricing engineers can build that compensation into the rate.

The positive benefits are many.  First, compensated on duty time would attract more workers to the driving profession.  Second, companies will find that better managing their docks will better utilize their assets and may actually cut shipping costs.  The boost in productivity from more time driving and less time sitting lowers equipment cost per mile and rate increases are actually mitigated.  Industry-wide on time performance will improve.

Unfortunately, all of this common sense probably needs federal legislation to make it happen.  It's tough for a trucking company to pay waiting time if their competitors won't.  I do see change coming and maybe this is one of the positive impacts of ELDs, now waiting time can be legitimized.  In a way, perhaps the two should go hand-in-hand, install ELDs then pay for all on-duty not driving.

Mark Montague, MBA
former broker/former dispatcher/manager/spotter

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Why price engineers?  I'm just curious.   I seen your designation and wanted to ask that question.  My designations are MBA and MAFM, and we both went to business school for many years.  I've also been a proud trucker for well over 30 years and seen this industry from both sides.    This situation should be handled by group tanks with group members coming from all walks of this industry including truck drivers and not including shippers/receivers, lobbyists, nor brokers because they are a major part of the problem and cannot ever be construed as part of the solution.   They need to adjust to whatever the solution mandates to them and start treating trucking companies and drivers decently.  After all, I'm assured they're well compensated for all of their time while on the job.  

The biggest downfall that I see is less hours available for driving if all of this time is marked on line 4 in log books.  There needs to be adjustments made that entails drivers to be compensated for their time without showing the full time taken on line 4 for waiting such as at shippers/receivers, breakdowns and equipment repairs, and etc etc.   Majority of local drivers are compensated for this time and it's long overdue that all drivers are treated this adequately.  

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Wendy Shafer
Wendy Shafer

Thank you Mark that was very well put. I too would like to see an increase in the distribution of common sense, logistically speaking, directly regarding this issue in particular.  I also concur that all of that is directly waiting for funding, and enough voices to be heard. Wishing in one hand....hoping for the best outcome.

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Supertruckingirl
Supertruckingirl

What about long Customs waits while crossing the border? Many, many hours get wasted in long lines and you might also get the privilege of waiting in the x-ray line and/or hitting the dock for a freight inspection while waiting in a tiny holding room for hours. Should drivers be paid for this detention time? Will Customs be held accountable to compensate for this type of driver delay?

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everyone needs to stop crossing and society will make the restitution necessary in lessening these waits.   Unfortunately, this will never happen.  So, employers will be the ones covering this expense.

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Zefrey Love
Zefrey Love

it's hard to imagine them implementing a electronic log system based on an hourly system,when a lot of the log has nothing to do with pay,that being said it should not be logged. if you're going to have an hourly system drivers need to be paid hourly.the reason they don't is because companies get them for free,it's time for this to stop,especially when you're trying to implement a E log based on a  hourly schedule

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Drivers or carriers should be paid for their waiting time, why shipper or receiver should hold them for their behalf and not to pay?  2 hours is enough for loading and unloading after that it should be specific amount for dry van for reefer and etc. for example I am delivering with my reefer and instead of two hours they are unloading five hours why I have to waste my 3 hours and  my reefer should work three additional hours and nobody will pay for that? Drivers don't know how long it's gonna take for loading/unloading one is taking 5 hours the other one is 7 and after that how the driver will arrange it's time for driving since he starts his day with that kind of surprises? why we have to waste our time for their behalf?
Who works for free?  And  there is a big concern about the brokerages sometimes they are getting the detention and doesn't give us any money or giving only the small portion! By sitting over there sometimes they are getting more money as a 3rd party than truck owner operators why they have to regulate the prices? For example they get the load for $6000 and giving it to someone for $3000 is it fair? They are only 3rd party lets not to forget that meaning!  Whe they are not working by percentage as before if broker took that load for $6000 then he/she should give for the same price less its percentage which can be from 7-10%. People really they drop the prices they regulate the market by wanting to give the load or no and because of this situation they are making delays of many loads because they want to sell that load for even cheaper.  Truck drivers let this situation happened in the past, let's press on the problem make changes and returne the meaning of 3rd party by percentage and not leave them to overrule on us that's why brokers have big mount today and they talk to us how they want!

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Most businesses don't change.  Society makes them change.  People make drivers wait because it doesn't cost them a dime for inconveniencing other people.  Trust me, these people would change in a heartbeat if they were the ones that had to wait.  2 hours is way to nice and you should really consider 1 hour because even 1 hour is more than generous.  

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Everyone is pinpointing it to loading and unloading.  Sure, trucks are held up at these places, but there're a lot more facets that drivers are not paid for such as fueling, break-, downs, and etc.  Paying drivers for detention time will assist in improving the massive driver shortage because more drivers will stay in the industry as well as more people becoming interested in the long haul segment of the trucking industry because it has become more lucrative as a career.  

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I'm an independent contractor and have countless hours of wait time. Think about it. If you have two loads per day and wait just 2 hours per shipper and consignee,  that alone adds up to 8 hours of free time and 8 hour lost as a driver.  I don't know about you, but I get paid by the mileage and not by the hour! !! That adds up to a minimum of $648 in lost revenue. At $15 or $20 per hour doesn't even come close.  Do this every day and you have seriously lost out. How many employees are going to give 8 hours away free? Shippers and consignees need to pay heavily for this and no more appointment times. It means nothing to them. But watch out if we're late!!!!

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We own  a trucking company  that is running 6 Trucks and we pay our Driver $25.00 per drop... Plus we pay  $12.50 per hour after 2  hours of Detention time.....If we  are there more than 4 hour we call the Broker and tell them, If we don't get any satisfaction on loading the truck , we pull that truck from broker and shipper ( why? ) Because we own the trucks not the Broker or shipper....If we are unloading and 4 hours come to pass we  call the Broker and if no satisfaction comes from them, then we call the Receiver to unload the truck and if they Don't then we will call the law...For unlawfully holding the truck..These Brokers , Shippers, And Receivers DO NOT OWN MY TRUCKS ...Plus, The Brokers are telling us that the Detention is Customer base...The Broker's client is not my Customer, The Broker is my customer,, So they should step up to the plate and pay the Carrier if they get Detention or NOT... Plus, We are starting a Brokerage and it is in the CONTRACT AND RATE CONFIRMATION that we will pay $50.00 per hour after 2 hours no matter what....if we get it from the shipper or receiver.

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Shipper/receiver should have 2 hours window from the appt time to unload/load trucks.  Or be forced to pay steep detention after this window.
This is their job to set the appointments the way they can do the job.  Truck drivers/companies pay for their incompetence and mess.
If this will be adjusted, then the roads are  going to be safer also.
Trucking companies do not make profits on detention money, as well as the drivers (as of now)

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They should be paid for all on duty time weather it is getting loaded or unloaded getting fuel  getting maint.
done or tires changed what ever the driver is doing at the direction of the trucking Co. From the time they
start there log boot for the day drivers should be getting paid till they sign off at the end of the day just like
every one else they are doing a job pay for it this should not even be asked .

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There should be a website where carriers could review shippers, receivers and brokers like the sites that are set up to help brokers review carriers. Then they would be more careful to load/unload quickly or pay fair detention rates. I think this would be a much better option than government regulation.

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Mark Excell
Mark Excell

Been detained at Castellini Co Produce for 16 hrs and counting.
Got here on time.
"Customer asked for my Cell phone number and said will call you depending upon when we need your product"
Will Not Haul to this criminal again.
I say this Is theft of services by fraud.

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One national news story involving a large receiver like Wal Mart, Costco, etc... and these companies would be forced into retention pay to avoid further "Bad Publicity" -or- you can wait on the Government to straighten things out, I hear there doing a bang up job with Healthcare, Social Security and LOL

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Detention time after two hours most be compensate for commercial drivers, there is always others expenses in the long wating periods like ,fuel ,and equipments's depreciation , only those who's suffering  the unpleasant  journeys without get an incentive are the ones carries the truth,........

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YES. should be .

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The only $$ that should be paid is if waiting to load results in a layover.
  A driver is contract to go from Point A to point B (sometimes C,D and E) in a predetermined amount of time. It shouldn't matter if a driver is sitting or driving.  Does the shipper get money back if the driver is early? No.  If the driver can legally make delivery why should he/she be paid detention at the shipper?
If a driver being detained at the shipper results in a layover. The Driver should definitely be compensated.


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are you a moron or just plain ignorant? So what you are saying is that confirmation is just a worthless piece of paper that both parties signed. by detaining a carrier you causing them to cancel reloads, you are causing them to use up their hours, you are causing stress and fatigue, you are causing them to use up their fuel. And you are telling me they shouldn't get paid for all that? and what is a layover? most brokers hide behind that, $150 if that. Truck is detained for 5,10,15 hours and gets paid less than a mcdonalds worker in ratio terms.
If driver was late purpose, then it's another story. But you are saying that they should pay out of pocket for broker's fault or the customer's fault?  We are there to transport the load and not a storage unit for cheap ass customers.  The way I see it, and ethically,  you should pay me for every hour I spend at the shipper if it goes past 2 hours, because 2 hours is enough time to unload multiple trucks.

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So you are saying If the driver is on time for delivery and is unloaded on time he/she should be paid extra for sitting around at a shipper?

So, should a driver be deducted from the line haul if he/she is unloaded early?


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Whose the idiot that came up with the 2-hour rule.  Drivers should be treated just like any other hourly paid employee, and drivers need to be paid from the minute they get to wherever holds them up.  That's right, drivers give enough freebies and need to take action and get paid from minute one.  Drivers need not settle for anything less because hourly employees don't.  Again, whose the moron that came up with the nonsense 2 hour rule.

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yes two hour rule is idiotic, drivers should get paid from time 0. your argument would have some merit if Driver were to get paid hourly but they don't. But if they were, then yes they should be paid from time of pick up till they are fully unloaded.
Driver are not only treated like trash from brokers but they get treated like trash are shipper and receiver. Its like walking into a walmart and having their employees make you wait for hours at a checkout line and then yell at you for being frustrated for waiting that long. anyways the fact being is carriers are cheated out of their money and loose thousands yearly

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Actually, there is plenty of merit in my argument because drivers have giving enough freebies and any more are not justifiable.  Drivers need to be paid for all time spent on Line 4 regardless what the dam circumstances are because it's not fair to work and not receive compensation.   Enough is enough and the Hell with who thinks differently.  

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Sorry Wayne, I thought I was replying to the original guy "Curtis". I agree with you 100% by "no merit" was towards the original comment.

Curtis to you dude. You are either a broker who is trying to justify his non-honorable actions or some simpleton who has never spent a dime to operate your own equipment. I could be wrong. But not a single sound minded Carrier/driver will ever say what you said. What you said is driver should work for free.

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Drivers need paid for detention.. And if the trucking companies are forced by law to compensate the drivers then it won't take long for the trucking companies to charge the shipper/receiver for the detention.. How much should they be paid?? They should be paid an hourly rate equal to a skilled laborer job n not minimum wage.. If the trucking companies don't collect then that's their loss but at least the drivers got paid...

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What is considered delay?
What is considered detention time?
How much time should be included in a rate?
If the shipper is first come first serve and we all show up 10 minutes before closing time how would you factor that in ?
Should the shipper and or receiver sign us in and out on a receiving desk to receiving desk or should it be public street to public street time ?
  When does detention time start when the driver can't figure out how to back into a dog ?
When does detention time start if I am only picking up two pallets ?
When does Detention start if I have a flat bed requiring Tarps?
There really is too many variables I suggest a national Registry of shipper turn time

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steven stone
steven stone

1st thing, I pull a flatbed.. n detention time starts at 2hrs from appt or when you get there.. fcfs.. don't like it.. set appts..

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i believe driver should get paid detention - there is no question !!!
I also believe that we carriers we aloud brokers to lower the rates buy accepting the're low rates. the rates are crazy low!!!   if no one carrier will take the low rate load then the broker will have  only two choice: 1)or give better rate 2)or he will have to seat behind the wheel and deliver. why some brokers after u take the load still keep that load on the board. because he accept you're rate for 1400$ but after you another carrier call him.  he ask if it's ok 1300$ he said yes and then he is canceling you're load. because of that i believe  all brokers should should have flat rates.  it's crazy that one broker  for the same load is paying 1300$ the other broker 1000$.  if all carriers stand up together then there is a chance for better if not then - hello. thank u                  

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Two hour free then 150$ after that min one hour . Also for company drivers that are required to do a 30min pretrip and time fuleing should get paid since is counting down on the on duty hours because that is considered work and also actual miles should get paid.

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We pay our drivers hourly, we give our employee drivers a 60 minute lunch everyday this lunch break is given while shipper, receiver handles the freight, just like any construction company employee BRING YOUR LUNCH TO WORK WITH YOU as there is no McDonalds on site

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Some of the worst offenders pay the companies some of the best rates per mile. If they had a conscience they would pass part of that money onto the driver that has to deal with the hassle . But because they don't I won't even look at a p&g load where it takes hours just to get through the guard shack.

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ANGELO A BALDIN
ANGELO A BALDIN

A will be the right thing for us truck drivers get pay for the all on duty hours, but as you all know the truck driver always get f*** one way or another. Ones we start to get pay for detention on shipping or receiving they will start to charge back when we arrive late with no exceptional reason for it. Like the company I work for it love to say that they care for us the drivers. Couple months ago I had a bad week driving, not much hours at all so I send to the company a copy of my mortgage bill with a letter saying that because I didn't make money enough to pay all my bills and they "care so much" about us as their drivers, that they could pay my mortgage that month. They didn't do that but since then, if I am on detention they pay me $20 every 2 hours that I am on duty waiting to be load, unload or waiting for a swapping.

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That's the stupidest question I've heard in a long time. Should drivers be paid detention time hell yes. Not only should they be paid detention time but companies responsible for detention should pay a fine of a thousand dollars to the United States air board for keeping trucks and refer units tuning and if the company is out of compliance more than 25% they should be shut down the first time 3 days the next time indefinitely.

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Danny P Hamilton
Danny P Hamilton

I believe like everyone else that shippers and receivers should unload the truck within two hours if not the driver should be paid at least $20 an hour for the misery of having to sit and wait and lose money  not to mention the fact that it's taking away from their families and home time this has been going on for far too long let's put it to a stop but unfortunately Trucking Company owners will try to benefit on this law for themselves on the back of their employees as usual

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